The WRONG Way to Make Money with Your Podcast
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One of the best ways you can make money with your podcast is by using it to showcase your expertise and your authority in a field. And then getting people who listen to hire you in a client or customer relationship by one of your products or get private purchase. But one of the absolute wrong ways to do this is by doing it duplicity.
Recently, I was asked to be a guest on three different podcasts just to be given a hard sell on their services after the interview. This is the absolute wrong way to make money with your podcast.
Today, we're going to talk about how the tactic works, why it's wrong, and how to do this the right way. And then I'll tell you what I'm doing in the future to try to protect against this tactic. Again, going into this episode, I'm not saying that selling is wrong. I'm saying that your podcast guests are not your sales partner.
Hello! And welcome to Make Money Podcasting, where I teach you how to make your first $10,000 with your podcast. On this show, you'll learn tried and true methods to increase your revenue and turn your podcast from a money pit into a money maker.
Hi! I'm your host, Joe Casabona. And my podcasts have been making money from day one without a lot of downloads. I'll share everything I know with you here on Make Money Podcasting presented by Podcast Liftoff and Nexcess.
Joe Casabona: If you want a surefire way to betray trust in your podcast, invite a guest on just to ambush them with a sales pitch for your own services. Your podcast guests are not part of your sales funnel. Not even close.
So, first of all, let's talk about how this tactic works. Someone will cold pitch you to come on their show. They're probably not going to do it via email though, or they might. I've had it happen via Twitter DM, LinkedIn messaging, and an automated email because somebody else recommended me for a show. They almost definitely won't tell you why they think you're a good fit. They'll just say, “Hey, come on my podcast. Here's a recent episode.” Almost like they feel like they need to prove that they're putting out these episodes. The interview will be a calendar invite that is 30 minutes, absolute max. They're trying to cram as many of these in as possible because they are sales calls. They're not treating this as content that they want to publish.
And then after the interview, I should say that they will publish it. But that is not the primary goal so they're not going to promote episodes like you or I would promote episodes. And then after the interview, they'll straight up cold pitching. Some are savvier than others.
This week as I record this, I was on one where the guy just straight up launched into a pitch after he stopped recording. He said, “Do you want to get more customers or clients?” And I knew immediately where he was going and I was polite but firm in my rejection.
Another one was a little bit savvier. He, after we stopped recording, goes, “You know, something from our interview that I didn't touch on but I want to ask you about.” And then he used that as a jump-off point to do the pitch. And he said, “Can I set up a call with one of our people?” So that was another tactic.
The third one, I mean the third one, is the coldest. I've never actually talked to the host of this show because I got an automated email because somebody recommended me that put me into an email funnel where I then filled out a form and recorded my own audio. And he recorded the bumper. And then he was like, “Hey, your podcast is published.” Again, automated email. “Your podcast is published. Do you want to do a written interview too?” And I thought, “Well, I'm trying to be on more sites, so why not?” And then I got put into a sales funnel. “Hey, do you want to join our coaches (or whatever)? It's $790 a year.” So, but it was all pretty clear from the outset, a way just to get me into their sales.
So now, let's talk about why this tactic is wrong. If I need to tell you when you invite someone onto your show, you are asking them to share a lot of what they know in order to enrich your audience. For me, that means I'm going to think about the things I want to say. I'm going to look into your show a little bit to understand your audience because I want to make the best impression possible. And then I'm taking time out of my day because I think that this is content that you are going to promote. I'm going to help promote. And I wanna do again, the best job I can.
The social contract is that a podcast guest gives you their time for free In exchange for content that you can publish on your channels. I position my main show, How I Built It as free coaching calls from successful creators. And that's honestly what I feel they are. All of my guests have given me and my audience fantastic advice. I want to make them look as best as possible. I want those episodes to reach as many people as possible because I am grateful that they've given me good content. But when you immediately pitch someone after you interview them, you're telling them two things:
1. You really don't care about their expertise. You just had them on under some thinly failed veiled guys to put them into a sales funnel or on a sales call.
2. You don't really care about their time because you had to lie to get them on a zoom call or whatever.
And honestly, tricking people into sales calls by using a podcast is desperate and gross. It not only makes you look bad, but it makes other podcasters look bad as well.
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Joe Casabona: Now, I know what you're thinking. I've already said multiple times in multiple episodes of this show that your podcast is a great way for you to establish your expertise and get clients. And it is. So here's what you do instead because I don't want you to get me wrong.
I've gotten clients from my own podcast guests. They've come on my show. They've seen my process. We've had a conversation where I get to talk about podcasting a little bit or creating content or whatever. And then afterward, either immediately afterward, or a few weeks afterward, they'll email me and say, “Hey, do you do private coaching?” Or, “Hey, you mentioned that course. I'd love to take the course.”
So here's, here's what you do. You don't hard pitch them. You show them your expertise over the course of a conversation. You are respectful of their time and you form an honest-to-God relationship with them. So here's how this process might look.
Invite people on in good faith and have a conversation with them where you can both showcase your expertise. Before the recording, ask them what would make this a win for them. Afterwards, ask them how they feel it went. I always make it clear to my guests that if they need to rephrase something, we can do it right then and there. It's not live. And I want them to be able to make their points in the best way possible, and then stay in touch.
Yes. This is a much longer “sales funnel” because it's not even a sales funnel at first. Remember, your guests are not potential clients. They shouldn't be.
Through relationship building, they might become a potential client. This is a much more successful approach because you're building your network.
I've gotten clients from my show and my guests have referred me to their own clients as well because they trust me. Because they understand, I know what I'm talking about. I will never, ever, ever refer anyone who got me on a call under false pretense.
But the real truth is this. If you're starting a podcast just to have conversations with potential clients, your approach is duplicitous from the start. Getting people on a zoom call, asking them a few questions, and then hitting them with a hard sell doesn't make you good at sales. It makes you nothing more than a Charla.
Now, I understand that if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably not doing that. But I really, I feel like I had to get this out. It really bothered me that it's happened a few times now. It feels like a thing that people are doing because they think that that's the way they need to make money with their podcast. And that's honestly why I started this podcast. I want to show people the right way to make money. So I want to end with what I'm doing to try to prevent this.
If you'll recall from about 10 minutes ago, the tactic works because someone's gonna cold pitch you. So the first thing I will say back to them is, “Thanks so much for reaching out. Your show looks really interesting. I'm curious, why do you think I would make a good guest? And if it's an automated email, they might not even respond to this. But if they do respond to it and they haven't done their research, which they probably haven't, then they'll just say, “I really just want to tell your story.” Or, “I like interviewing entrepreneurs.”
And then you can either say, what about my story? Do you want to tell? or what particular area of my expertise will help your audience the best? Those questions. I would cut it off after too. But those questions will be enough for you to sniff out if someone is just getting you on their podcast because they want to rope you into a sales.
The other thing is that for a couple of them, you know, I got an email saying, “Hi! I was referred to you by (whoever).” So I will reach out to that person and I'll say, “Hey, did you actually refer me to these people?” I'll ask them how it went. And then I will also ask the person who reached out. “Oh, great. You know what did (whoever/Alice) say?” like why did Alice say she was recommending me? And again, that's a little gatekeeping question that if they did even a little tiny bit of research, they'll have an answer to. If they don't, then that's a red flag.
So that's it for this episode of Make Money Podcasting. The wrong way to make money with your podcast is by treating your podcast guests as part of your sales funnel assuming that they are potential clients, right from the start. Many of the people who come on my podcast also have podcasts. I do not assume that they are going to be my clients. I would never do that because I'm betraying their trust and their time and their energy and their expertise. And my audience. Like if I'm just asking you like five of the same questions just to get through to the part where I can hard sell you on my Facebook ad service, (Whoops. That was a real service.) I just pitched on then. I'm wasting everybody's time, including my own. So instead you use your podcast to showcase your expertise, and it's gonna take more time. But you're going to be more successful because then the people who need your services will reach out because they trust you.
All right. That is it for this episode of Make Money Podcasting. Thanks so much for listening. To get all of the show notes, you can head over to [makemoneypod.com/009].
Thanks so much to Nexcess for being a presenting sponsor.
Until next time. I'm Joe Casabona, and I can't wait to see what you make.
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