Podcast Ad Nauseam, Podroll, and Listening on 1.5x (3 Things in Podcasting)
Hello, hello, and welcome to another Three Things in Podcasting.
My name's Joe Casabona.
I'm your happy host over at Podcast Workflows.
Now, if you are watching this on YouTube or listening because somebody sent you a link,
you can go to podcastworkflows.com and join the mailing list, as well as subscribe to
this show wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you're unfamiliar, and I suspect you might be because this is a pretty new thing I'm
doing on Podcast Workflows, this is called Three Things in Podcasting, where I talk about,
you guessed it, three things in podcasting from this week.
Here are today's topics.
Sound Profitables ad nauseum report, rss.com and Transistor ad pod role, and podcasts should
only be listened to on 1X.
Let's dive into it.
I'm going to spend the lion's share of this on the ad nauseum report.
So Sounds Profitable, led by Tom Webster and Brian Barletta, did a pretty deep dive into
how people listen to podcast ads if they get annoyed by podcast ads and what we can do
to improve them.
So I have the report up here.
You can download it.
I'll put it in the show.
Notes for this as well as in the description for the video.
So you'll be able to find everything wherever you're listening to this.
But I'm going to start with the key findings and actions first, and then I'm going to highlight
some of the pieces of data that I found particularly interesting.
So let's go over here.
The key findings.
Let's run through these really quick.
58% have discovered a product or service they liked through a podcast ad and 45% have discovered a podcast ad.
And 45% have discovered a podcast ad.
And 45% have made a purchase because of a podcast ad.
That's really good news for podcasters.
Right.
Next up, most listeners heard an ad that 66% heard an ad two to three times before making a purchase with 75 purchasing within a week of last hearing the ad.
So repetition is important, but as we'll find out, too much repetition is bad.
Podcast ads were influential in the purchase decision.
For 72% of those who bought 34% have used a promo code because of an ad and 19% did so just to credit the creator or the podcast, which is super cool.
Thanks to anybody who does that.
That's really nice.
And it helps the show.
So really cool.
That's ad effectiveness.
Ad skipping.
46% of listeners say they always are often skip ads on podcast.
But that percentage is not.
That percentage drops when they're asked like about the last specific episode they consumed.
So they might have it in their head that they skip often, but they might not skip as often as they think they do.
28% say they listen to all of the ads on podcast, the highest percentage among all media channels.
So what this stat means is 28% of listeners say they listen to all ads on podcasts.
Right.
Compared to other media channels like TV, radio, YouTube.
28% is the highest.
We'll double check this in a minute, but I'm pretty sure YouTube was the lowest.
Lack of interest or relevance.
37% and familiarity with the advertiser.
28% are the primary motivators for skipping ads.
So if the ad is not relevant or the person already knows the brand, then they're not going to sit through the ad.
Then there's some information on ad frequency and repetition.
These are interesting.
So I think it's important to say that the average number of people who listen to a podcast is about 1% or less than the average number of people who listen to it.
So we're going to talk about that.
So I think it's important to say that the average number of people who listen to a podcast is about 1% or less than the average number of people who listen to it.
And then the average number of people who listen to a podcast is about 1% or less than the average number of people who listen to it.
So I think it's important to say that the average number of people who listen to a podcast is about 1% or less than the average number of people who listen to it.
And then 90% of people think hearing the same ad once or twice in an episode is acceptable with 40% agreeing on once.
This is the most interesting to me.
I don't really like hearing the same ad more than once in an episode, especially if that episode is like less than an hour long, which is most podcasts I listen to.
Distributed with the content is the expected positioning for ad breaks within the content.
So what this means is that most people will prefer a mid-roll versus a pre-roll or an end-roll ad.
And let's see.
Creative execution.
I'm going to touch on that in a minute.
So let's, there are, is it four, five actions, right?
Don't push it with quantity.
There may not be a right answer, but there is a point where people start to think there's too many.
People strongly remember two types of ads, really great ones and really terrible ones.
Filling unsold inventory with value-added spots for the same ad likely doesn't help the brand or the show.
So if you have two spots.
Or if you have three spots in a show and you've only sold two rerunning an ad, it may not help.
Um, our listeners are not afraid of ads.
They won't reject them, but they pay more attention to them.
So it's really important to capture their interest with running good ads.
Uh, and then, um, Hosts and creators need to do a better job explaining how this whole advertising deal works.
If they don't love them and tie their success to the show, the listeners won't either.
Uh, so, uh, the big take.
Away podcasters don't skip ads or podcast listeners don't skip ads.
They skip crap.
Um, okay.
So those are the overall takeaways.
Um, so I want to go through, uh, what I thought was some of the most interesting stuff.
This is, uh, God, this is so long.
Um, I did make some highlights in obsidian.
Um, that might be better.
So, um, probably should.
I just like wrote down, um, why are you tired of hearing the same ads?
I'm not learning anything new.
I think this is where like my biggest breakthrough came from.
Um, and so, uh, I think like the creative execution part here, what makes it more tolerable to hear an ad repeatedly?
It's entertaining and it's funny.
I think that this is just probably good practice.
Um, and then the primary motivation.
I think that the primary motivation for me to skip ads again, like I said, is lack of interest or relevance.
Uh, w it was right around here.
Think about an ad.
You're tired of hearing what type of ad is it generic announcer doing the ad, right?
So if the host is not doing it, that's what annoys people the most, um, add with music or jingle.
Right.
So it's like, you know, just my takeaway here is that they want it to sound more organic.
And so this.
Got me thinking a little bit about possibly creating ads on cause my ads are dynamically inserted.
They are host read and dynamic insertion is not even the right term.
Like transistor doesn't do proper dynamic insertion.
It's dynamic content and they will regenerate the audio.
Um, and so yes, they're dynamically inserted in the sense that I don't read them or add them during the edit.
Right.
I don't read them.
Live or add them during the edit.
Um, but.
It's an audio file that you're getting.
It's not just like, there's no service inserting that ad into it.
So anyway, my point being is that I'm thinking here, um, it might be interesting for me to try, uh, doing a different kind of ad where I do it live.
Um, and, and integrate it a little bit more into the conversation.
Obviously there are some pitfalls here.
I ran this by, um, my friend, Justin.
More who said like, okay, yes, but also like, make sure you get, um, buy in from the brand, uh, and make sure you get buy in from the guest.
Those are two things, uh, that you definitely want to make sure all parties are okay with because they don't want to feel, um, uh, ambushed or, uh, you know, maybe, um, their advertiser is a competitor and they don't necessarily want to, you know, maybe.
My guest has a brand deal with a competitor and they don't necessarily want to be associated, uh, with the competitor, even though it's not on their show.
So those, uh, those were really good thoughts by my friend, Justin.
Um, but it really got me thinking about a better way to do podcast ads based on this information.
So, uh, okay.
Getting back to this, I scroll to the top of the document.
Now I did want to point this out.
They do tell their methodology or show their methodology.
Cause I always wonder about that.
Um, survey of 1011 Americans age 18 plus who had indicated they had listened to at least one pad podcast podcast podcast in the last week, um, weighed against the U S census and sounds profitable 2023 study the podcast landscape.
So that's how they did it.
Um, so kind of going through, I highlighted, you know, there's like, there's interesting stuff here.
48 totally enjoy your adult 48% totally enjoy your don't.
Mind podcast ads, um, which I thought was interesting.
Um, we kind of went over that stat.
Um, most consumers tend to overstate how often they skip ads when asked hypothetical questions.
Um, but then when the rubber meets the road, it turns out that, you know, they've probably listened to more than they think.
Um, and they just kind of like, remember the times they're skipping.
Uh, so I thought that was really interesting.
Um, no single motivation for skipping the ads.
This was kind of in the.
Key.
Key takeaways.
Um, and so I thought that that was.
Uh, interesting.
How many is too many?
Uh, no single answer.
Have you ever stopped listening to a podcast altogether because it felt like it had too many ads?
70% say no 30%.
This is, I mean, this makes sense to me, right?
There are some people who hate ads and we'll just go through great lengths.
To not listen to them.
Um, I highlighted this, this was interesting.
How many ads do you recall hearing in your last podcast?
Episode two to three.
Remember, um, 67% remember two to three.
So I thought that was interesting.
Uh, going through this a little more, um, two to three ads is kind of just right.
Uh, but consumers are forgiving, right?
Um, most people will not stop listening if they feel your episode has too many ads.
Uh, and that's true for me, right?
I listened to some podcasts that have like nine ads in them and I'll skip them.
Right.
Um, and I'll just, uh,
get to the, cause I like the content.
It's good.
It has to be good content is the really important part.
Um, one flat, one factor that influences perception is how ads are
placed in the context of the show.
So how many times was there an ad break?
This is the perception.
Um, some people thought three to five, uh, most people thought three to five ad breaks.
Um, where do you prefer to hear podcast ads?
I thought this was interesting.
Cause I have been running like a year long experiment on this, where I'm putting all of the
ads in the middle.
So 25% want spread throughout 32% like during the middle as a break.
This is what I've been doing.
I might start doing this again.
Um, 19% say at the end, 24% say at the beginning, I'm going to guess the ones who say at the
end know that they could just stop listening and never have to press the skip button.
Uh, that's complete conjecture, but like once the content is over, I'm probably not going to
stick around for an ad.
I never skip, skip, stick around for the end roll ads.
Unless it's like really good and like sneak, like sneaky good.
Um, so consumers prefer to have in, uh, ads sandwiched within the content they enjoy.
Um, they're less likely to skip that way.
Right.
Um, how many times do you expect a 30 minute podcast episode to take break for ads twice?
Once at the beginning, once in the middle.
So this is, this is good, right?
Four times or more.
That's really low.
Or that's like 1% is low, but like, that's a lot for a 30 minute podcast, I think.
Um, you can have too many ads.
Uh, we kind of talked about that already.
Um, how do you feel about hearing the same ad more than once in a single podcast episode?
51% say it becomes annoying over time or I strongly dislike it.
So that's, that's really interesting.
And it's probably, it's probably because like those ads are also probably not ad read.
Um, or like I've heard the same ad back to back.
Like that's, that's literally doing nothing for me.
Right.
Um, the same thing with commercials.
Like you ever see the same TV commercial twice in a row.
Like that's crazy.
Um, so this report's really good.
It's 88 slides.
I'm probably going to do a bigger writeup for it over on podcastworkflows.com.
Um, but I thought that this was really interesting.
Right.
But we touched on this before making a purchase.
How many times do you estimate you heard the ad two to three times?
So this is, this falls in line with what I tell my sponsors, which is, Hey, one, one podcast episode isn't going to cut it.
I recommend at least four, but really more like six to 10 because also people aren't going to listen to, um, every episode probably.
Um, and then how long after hearing the ad was, uh, the last time you made a purchase decision, right?
Immediately or within a week, that's 74%.
So, um, being top of mind is really important here.
Um, this was interesting and I don't think it was highlighted, but like, do you hear the ad on just one podcast or multiple 52% said multiple.
So, um, I don't know.
Um, you know, and like, I mean, this is why better help is everywhere.
This is why like me on these was everywhere.
So, um, but then do you, when they encounter the ad across multiple channels, this was interesting.
Um, people are more likely to attribute the podcast for making the purchase.
Um, so I think that that was, and then we got into the promo code stuff.
And I'll tell you, I think that that was really interesting.
Um, this was super interesting to me.
They circled, they circled this.
I didn't do this.
Uh, how do you remember the last promo code?
Looked it up in the podcast show notes or looked it up later on the podcast website.
My friends, this is a really important nugget right here, right?
Um, people aren't going to remember the code, especially if they're driving, they're going to remember that there is a discount.
And so having it in your show notes or on your website will make sure you get the credit that you deserve.
Super duper important because again, 19% say they just use it because they want to credit your show, uh, which is amazing.
And so, um, quality, what motivates you to skip ads in your favorite podcast differences in volume.
If you're doing the edit, uh, make sure you also level the ads or like me, if you do separate ad reads that are inserted later, have your editor also level the ads.
Um, so I,
I think that,
uh,
I think that does it for like the,
um,
highlights I wanted to point out.
Um,
but again,
we can never,
this is a really important highlight too,
right?
We can never forget the top reason many people come to the medium to learn something new,
excessive repeated executions of the same ad violate that expectation.
So if you are teaching inside of the ad read,
it's going to land better.
This is my biggest takeaway.
When I do my next ad,
next set of ad reads,
I am going to make sure to teach something about the product and why it's relevant to my audience.
I,
that is my biggest takeaway from that report.
Again,
I will link to that in the show notes,
um,
in the description.
It's real.
I strongly recommend you kind of going through it.
There's a lot of really good data here and I like what sounds profitable is doing right.
They,
I mean,
they're,
they're like really big on like dynamically and,
you know,
like they're like,
they're like,
they're like,
they're like,
the audience they serve is,
uh,
I'm not going to say the audience they serve might not always be in the best interest of indie podcasters,
but these reports I think are,
um,
objective and unbiased and really good.
And like,
especially like the work that Tom Webster is doing is,
is really great.
So,
um,
strongly recommend sounds profitable.
They're doing really great work over there.
Okay.
So,
so,
so,
the second thing for this week in podcasting,
rss.com and transistor.fm,
um,
add pod role.
What is pod role?
You might be wondering.
Um,
pod role is the ability to recommend other podcasts.
So if you have been around the internet as long as I have,
um,
as long as I have,
uh,
then you might remember blog role where there was just like a little sidebar section.
Um,
where people could recommend other blogs.
Uh,
so pod role is the same thing.
It's an official podcasting 2.0 feature,
which is just something it's like a standard feature that could be implemented by podcast
apps and services.
Um,
you need that buy-in.
And so,
uh,
over on podcasting 2.org on the podcast,
on the pod role tag,
they do list the apps that support pod role,
the hosting platforms,
which needs to be updated now.
Um,
that supports,
um,
that was like very like test test.
I didn't mean for it to be that way.
Um,
the host that support it and other apps and platforms that support it.
So,
um,
if I look,
if we look at,
um,
true fans,
one of the apps that supports pod role,
this is my podcast.
And this is what the pod role looks like from the user end,
right?
So people can see what shows I'm recommending.
They can also see what's recommending my show.
So if I go to podcast workflows and go,
to the pod role,
you could see the shows I am recommending on that one too.
Now,
how is this implemented,
uh,
for each host?
Um,
for,
uh,
let me make this a little bit bigger for a transistor.
It's going to be under settings promotion.
Uh,
you can recommend up to 10 podcasts by searching for the name of the
podcast here and it'll show up on,
um,
on a dropdown menu over in RSS.com.
Uh,
which is somewhere,
um,
it's very similar in that it's going to be under,
uh,
it'll be under settings and then pod role recommendations.
And then again,
I can,
uh,
search for,
um,
the podcast that I want to recommend.
Um,
oops,
I spelled podcast wrong.
Um,
so podcast workflows,
um,
and,
and then,
and,
and,
and there I am right there.
So,
uh,
that's pod role.
If you,
you know,
it's not,
this doesn't have widespread support.
Um,
but I wanted to highlight it because it's one of those cool community
features that makes,
uh,
that makes it discovery a little bit easier.
Right?
So if more,
this is an,
uh,
not an easy thing to,
I mean,
it's like probably easier for apps,
um,
to implement than it is for,
for hosts to implement.
Cause like they're doing this like dynamic lookup for the shows and adding it
to pod role.
But,
um,
it's a really nice feature that is not hard to understand,
right?
Like value for value.
If you don't understand cryptocurrency is hard to understand recommending other
shows on your podcast.
I mean,
that's just nice,
right?
Like it's easy to understand and it's just nice.
So,
um,
I hope to see more,
uh,
uh,
hosts offer this.
And I hope to see more apps support this,
uh,
and hats off to rss.com,
uh,
and transistor who both recently rolled that out.
Uh,
okay.
So the last thing I want to cover here on three things in podcasting is,
a little hot take from my friend,
Albin Brooke,
um,
over at,
uh,
buzzsprout.
He posted on threads recently,
two days ago,
according to threads.
As I look at this now,
uh,
if a podcast is a good thing,
if a podcast isn't worth listening to at one X,
then it isn't worth listening to at one five,
1.5 X or faster.
So this is shots fired to people who listen to podcasts at faster than one X.
Actually,
he clarifies down here.
I'm judging everybody at 1.25 X and above.
Um,
he says,
I never think this is kind of boring,
but it would be great if it's 33%.
Um,
and then like,
he goes,
uh,
people took this really personally,
by the way.
Um,
and then,
you know,
this person said 1.7 for audio books.
First of all,
James Spoutler,
um,
that is on like 1.7 and above.
There'll be like,
I was an audio books at two X that is unhinged.
Right.
And I said later,
like,
cause Albin says one X for podcasts,
audio books,
video,
and music.
If you're listening to audio books at two X,
if you are listening to music at more than one X,
that is also unhinged.
Like it's pointless music,
like music and movies,
the pacing and the tempo is so crucial to the content.
Like you're just ruining it.
Right.
It's like saying,
Oh man,
this book would be better if I dunked it in water before I started reading it.
Or if I ripped out a bunch of the pages,
like that's crazy.
Um,
so,
so how do I feel about this?
I actually used to say the same thing.
Um,
like,
Hey,
if you listen at one,
like my point was really,
if you don't have enough,
like if you're not making the time and space to listen to a podcast,
uh,
that you have to listen at like 1.5 X,
do you really need to consume that?
Or are you just doing it to say you did?
Um,
and so I,
but I've changed my mind a little bit.
Um,
I said,
I listened to news and sports at 1.25 X.
Um,
usually when the hosts banter a lot,
um,
because you know,
like one of my favorite,
I mean like I love,
uh,
John boy media.
Um,
and so like baseball today with Chris Rose and Trevor Ploof,
um,
and,
uh,
talking Yanks with John boy and Jake.
Um,
I love those shows.
They're all good friends and they banter and go back and forth.
A lot.
And I'm really there like to hear the stats and the interesting takes.
And so,
you know,
I don't think there's a problem listening to that at 1.25 X.
I get through the content a little faster,
but maybe I get to listen to it all at the same time.
Right.
Whereas like,
I don't have to like stop and then come back later and try to remember.
So like,
it does help me a little bit there.
Um,
and the same thing with like new shit,
like,
um,
advisory opinions.
I,
I usually listen to at 1.25.
Uh,
that's a,
a political podcast or a law,
a law.
Oh,
I don't know.
My accent is all super weird today.
A law podcast.
Um,
and I listened to that at 1.25 X cause they banter a lot and they go through a
lot of stuff.
I'll slow it down if they're going through a case I'm particularly interested
in,
or there's like a lot of legal stuff I need to work through,
but like serious trouble,
which is another legal podcast.
I listened to that at one X because they keep it very focused.
Um,
and again,
Ken white who,
uh,
Pope hat report.
He's the guy,
the lawyer,
he's like going through the details.
Um,
and so it's,
it's,
it really is about the content.
Um,
I would agree that anything more than 1.5 is like crazy.
Um,
like at that point you're,
you're basically just checking off a box,
which,
which Alvin says later.
Um,
so,
you know,
I think he,
did he respond to this?
Um,
cause he also said,
like he'll,
he'll use like smarts meet speed and overcast to skip pauses.
And I being a little contrarian,
I said,
uh,
well,
you know,
some people want those pauses for dramatic effect,
right?
Like,
so,
um,
you know,
where do you really draw the line?
Um,
I think that,
you know,
the content creator is creating the content and they're hopefully doing
it in a certain way.
And this is really Albin's point,
right?
If people aren't putting a lot of effort into their content,
is the content really worth listening to?
And if you feel like you need to listen to something at 1.5 X or higher,
um,
you're dramatically affecting the delivery of that content.
And,
uh,
you're maybe changing the meaning all for the sake of saying you completed
it,
right?
Listening to an audio book.
I'm sorry.
Uh,
I listened to audio books at one X.
If it is a business book,
which are famously fluffy,
I will listen to that at 1.25.
After that,
I'm really not getting anything out of it,
right?
Like,
um,
I'm just listening to it to say I listened to it.
Um,
but if it's like a fiction book,
listen at one X,
that's how it's meant to be.
Um,
and so,
you know,
I think,
uh,
obviously you do you,
but I agree with Albin's,
I think underlining point,
which is don't just consume content to say you consumed it,
consume it because you felt it was worth consuming.
Uh,
and that's a good place to leave it today on three things in podcasting.
Let me know what you think of this.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Uh,
if you did leave a comment,
if you're watching on YouTube,
uh,
or write to me,
I am at Jay Casabona on most social networks.
And let me know what you think.
If you have a,
a three thing,
a thing to be included in three things.
Let me know that as well.
My email is open.
It's Joe.
It's Joe at Casabona.org.
I love to hear from you.
Um,
but that's it for this episode.
Thanks so much for listening and or watching.
And until next time,
I'll see you out there.
Peace.
